Differences in First Vision accounts - Revision history

SpencerMarsh: /* Patterns within documents */

2026-01-29T16:30:38Z

Patterns within documents

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	It is clear from a consultation of the 1832 text that Joseph Smith's desire to be forgiven of his personal sins was NOT the only motivation for his prayer in the wilderness. He prayed (as he explicitly states) because of "all" of the things he mentions - including the desire to worship God in truth; according to His laws (which Joseph did not believe was the case among any of the Christians denominations that he knew of).		It is clear from a consultation of the 1832 text that Joseph Smith's desire to be forgiven of his personal sins was NOT the only motivation for his prayer in the wilderness. He prayed (as he explicitly states) because of "all" of the things he mentions - including the desire to worship God in truth; according to His laws (which Joseph did not believe was the case among any of the Christians denominations that he knew of).

	= Patterns within documents =		== Patterns within documents ==

	The 1832 textual pattern of (1) desire to prepare for eternity / worship God in truth and (2) desire for forgiveness of personal sins can be detected in subsequent First Vision recitals, demonstrating that there is no change in his declared motive over time. The confusion of the critics on this issue arises when they do not see exact matches in themes across documents or insist that every detail of the story be present in every text that relates it.		The 1832 textual pattern of (1) desire to prepare for eternity / worship God in truth and (2) desire for forgiveness of personal sins can be detected in subsequent First Vision recitals, demonstrating that there is no change in his declared motive over time. The confusion of the critics on this issue arises when they do not see exact matches in themes across documents or insist that every detail of the story be present in every text that relates it.

SpencerMarsh: /* Summary of themes */

2026-01-29T16:30:23Z

Summary of themes

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	= How do the First Vision accounts compare on the subject of Joseph's motivation for praying? =		= How do the First Vision accounts compare on the subject of Joseph's motivation for praying? =
	= Summary of themes =		== Summary of themes ==

	*Between the ages of 12 and 15 Joseph Smith became exceedingly distressed about his personal sins and mourned over them. He became seriously concerned about the welfare of his soul and so he searched the scripture for information on that topic.		*Between the ages of 12 and 15 Joseph Smith became exceedingly distressed about his personal sins and mourned over them. He became seriously concerned about the welfare of his soul and so he searched the scripture for information on that topic.
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	*When Joseph Smith "'''considered all these things'''" he prayed to the Lord and received his First Vision.		*When Joseph Smith "'''considered all these things'''" he prayed to the Lord and received his First Vision.

	It is clear from a consultation of the 1832 text that Joseph Smith's desire to be forgiven of his personal sins was NOT the only motivation for his prayer in the wilderness. He prayed (as he explicitly states) because of "all" of the things he mentions - including the desire to worship God in truth; according to His laws (which Joseph did not believe was the case among any of the Christians denominations that he knew of).		It is clear from a consultation of the 1832 text that Joseph Smith's desire to be forgiven of his personal sins was NOT the only motivation for his prayer in the wilderness. He prayed (as he explicitly states) because of "all" of the things he mentions - including the desire to worship God in truth; according to His laws (which Joseph did not believe was the case among any of the Christians denominations that he knew of).

	= Patterns within documents =		= Patterns within documents =

SpencerMarsh: /* Joseph had two motivations: obtain a forgiveness of sins, and a desire to know which church was right */

2026-01-29T16:30:02Z

Joseph had two motivations: obtain a forgiveness of sins, and a desire to know which church was right

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:30, 29 January 2026
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	= What was Joseph Smith's motivation for going to the grove to pray in 1820? =		= What was Joseph Smith's motivation for going to the grove to pray in 1820? =
	= Joseph had two motivations: obtain a forgiveness of sins, and a desire to know which church was right =		== Joseph had two motivations: obtain a forgiveness of sins, and a desire to know which church was right ==
	Joseph Smith's stated motivation for praying to the Lord changes between the first known account of the First Vision (1832) and the official version of it (1838). The 1832 account emphasizes his desire for a forgiveness of sins, and the 1838 (official) account emphasizes his desire to know which church was right. Some critic claim that Joseph changed his story in later years.		Joseph Smith's stated motivation for praying to the Lord changes between the first known account of the First Vision (1832) and the official version of it (1838). The 1832 account emphasizes his desire for a forgiveness of sins, and the 1838 (official) account emphasizes his desire to know which church was right. Some critic claim that Joseph changed his story in later years.

SpencerMarsh at 20:56, 21 January 2026

2026-01-21T20:56:43Z

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	{{Main Page}}		{{Main Page}}

SpencerMarsh at 20:56, 21 January 2026

2026-01-21T20:56:25Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:56, 21 January 2026
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	{{Main Page}}		{{Main Page}}


	{{Navigation:First Vision}}		{{Navigation:First Vision}}

GregSmith: /* Joseph Lewis described himself as one of the "official members", indicating the Joseph was not a member of the church */

2024-06-01T22:53:43Z

Joseph Lewis described himself as one of the "official members", indicating the Joseph was not a member of the church

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:53, 1 June 2024
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	The Lewis source presents a scenario that was directly contradicted in print by an adult eyewitness who was a Methodist church officer. It is certainly possible that Joseph attended a Methodist meeting with his wife and in-laws: even in the Lewis' telling, however, he was quickly made to understand that he was not wanted, and he persisted in his own beliefs rather than continue with them.		The Lewis source presents a scenario that was directly contradicted in print by an adult eyewitness who was a Methodist church officer. It is certainly possible that Joseph attended a Methodist meeting with his wife and in-laws: even in the Lewis' telling, however, he was quickly made to understand that he was not wanted, and he persisted in his own beliefs rather than continue with them.

	{{~~Main~~\|Joseph Smith's First Vision/Did Joseph Smith join other churches/Methodist membership procedures\|l1=Methodist membership procedures and Joseph Smith}}		{{Related articles
	{{~~SeeAlso~~\|Joseph Smith's First Vision/Joseph became "partial to the Methodist sect" in 1820\|l1=Joseph became "partial to the Methodist sect" in 1820}}		\|title=main
			\|link1=Joseph Smith's First Vision/Did Joseph Smith join other churches/Methodist membership procedures
			\|subject1=Methodist membership procedures and Joseph Smith
			\|summary1=
			}}
			{{Related articles
			\|title=seealso
			\|link1=Joseph Smith's First Vision/Joseph became "partial to the Methodist sect" in 1820
			\|subject1=Joseph became "partial to the Methodist sect" in 1820
			\|summary1=
			}}

	= Did Joseph Smith join the Presbyterian Church after the First Vision? =		= Did Joseph Smith join the Presbyterian Church after the First Vision? =

GregSmith: /* Abanes' source */bot use legacy More template

2024-05-31T07:57:22Z

Abanes' source: bot use legacy More template

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:57, 31 May 2024
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	== Abanes' source ==		== Abanes' source ==

	The work cited by Abanes is not a recent work of Greek scholarship—it was first published in 1940.<ref>W.E. Vine's M.A., ''Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words'' (1940). {{link\|url=http://www2.mf.no/bibel/vines.html}}</ref> In the reference for ~~ακούω~~, we read:		The work cited by Abanes is not a recent work of Greek scholarship—it was first published in 1940.<ref>W.E. Vine's M.A., ''Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words'' (1940). {{link\|url=http://www2.mf.no/bibel/vines.html}}</ref> In the reference for ακούω, we read:

	:...the usual word denoting "to hear," is used (a) intransitively, e.g., Matt. 11:15; Mark 4;23; (b) transitively when the object is expressed, sometimes in the accusative case, sometimes in the genitive. Thus in Acts 9:7, "hearing the voice," the noun "voice" is in the partitive genitive case [i.e., hearing (something) of], whereas in Acts 22:9, "they heard not the voice," the construction is with the accusative. This removes the idea of any contradiction. The former indicates a "hearing" of the sound, the latter indicates the meaning or message of the voice (this they did not hear). "The former denotes the sensational perception, the latter (the accusative case) the thing perceived" (Cremer).		:...the usual word denoting "to hear," is used (a) intransitively, e.g., Matt. 11:15; Mark 4;23; (b) transitively when the object is expressed, sometimes in the accusative case, sometimes in the genitive. Thus in Acts 9:7, "hearing the voice," the noun "voice" is in the partitive genitive case [i.e., hearing (something) of], whereas in Acts 22:9, "they heard not the voice," the construction is with the accusative. This removes the idea of any contradiction. The former indicates a "hearing" of the sound, the latter indicates the meaning or message of the voice (this they did not hear). "The former denotes the sensational perception, the latter (the accusative case) the thing perceived" (Cremer).

GregSmith: /* Reminiscence Around 1820 */

2024-05-17T23:40:12Z

Reminiscence Around 1820

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	Pomeroy Tucker (a non-Mormon critic who knew Joseph Smith in Palmyra, New York) said that Joseph joined the Methodist probationary class in Palmyra but soon "withdrew from the class" '''without being converted'''; announcing that "all the churches [were] on a false foundation."<ref>{{TuckerOrigin\|start=17\|end=18}}</ref> This information corresponds with historical details dated by Joseph Smith at around 1820.		Pomeroy Tucker (a non-Mormon critic who knew Joseph Smith in Palmyra, New York) said that Joseph joined the Methodist probationary class in Palmyra but soon "withdrew from the class" '''without being converted'''; announcing that "all the churches [were] on a false foundation."<ref>{{TuckerOrigin\|start=17\|end=18}}</ref> This information corresponds with historical details dated by Joseph Smith at around 1820.

	~~{{Main\|First Vision/Methodist camp meetings\|l1=Joseph Smith and Methodist camp meetings}}~~

	=== Reminiscence of Fall 1823 ===		=== Reminiscence of Fall 1823 ===

GregSmith: /* Contemporary Document - 1832 */

2024-05-17T23:39:58Z

Contemporary Document - 1832

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	Thus, a great deal of contemporary evidence disproves the late, second hand claims.		Thus, a great deal of contemporary evidence disproves the late, second hand claims.

	~~{{SeeAlso\|First Vision/Methodist camp meetings\|l1=Joseph Smith and Methodist camp meetings}}~~

	{{Critical sources box:Joseph Smith's First Vision/Joseph Smith joined other churches/CriticalSources}}{{blankline}}		{{Critical sources box:Joseph Smith's First Vision/Joseph Smith joined other churches/CriticalSources}}{{blankline}}

GregSmith: /* Does Joseph Smith's 1832 account of the First Vision not mention that he was persecuted for telling others about the vision? */

2024-05-17T22:56:44Z

Does Joseph Smith's 1832 account of the First Vision not mention that he was persecuted for telling others about the vision?

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:56, 17 May 2024
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	This last example is especially significant because it is an obvious reference to the Methodist minister who is spoken of in the 1838 ''History of the Church'' account. The 1844 rehearsal of events is less detailed but it is, nevertheless, the same exact story. The 1844 document clearly demonstrates that Joseph Smith did not always include an equal amount of story elements in his recitals of the First Vision. Critics of this manifestation should, therefore, not expect any such thing when they scrutinize the pertinent documents. If an element of the story was not known by one particular audience it cannot be automatically assumed that it was not known by another.		This last example is especially significant because it is an obvious reference to the Methodist minister who is spoken of in the 1838 ''History of the Church'' account. The 1844 rehearsal of events is less detailed but it is, nevertheless, the same exact story. The 1844 document clearly demonstrates that Joseph Smith did not always include an equal amount of story elements in his recitals of the First Vision. Critics of this manifestation should, therefore, not expect any such thing when they scrutinize the pertinent documents. If an element of the story was not known by one particular audience it cannot be automatically assumed that it was not known by another.

	{{~~SeeAlso~~\|Events after the First Vision#Do contemporary documents shed any light on the possible persecution of the Smith family after Joseph Smith's First Vision?\|l1=What did the Smiths say about persecution following Joseph's vision?}}		{{Main\|Events after the First Vision#Do contemporary documents shed any light on the possible persecution of the Smith family after Joseph Smith's First Vision?\|l1=What did the Smiths say about persecution following Joseph's vision?}}

	{{To learn more box:First Vision: no such thing as visions}}{{blankline}}		{{To learn more box:First Vision: no such thing as visions}}{{blankline}}