Helen Mar Kimball - Revision history

SpencerMarsh at 19:59, 9 February 2026

2026-02-09T19:59:34Z

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SpencerMarsh at 19:56, 9 February 2026

2026-02-09T19:56:55Z

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	{{Navigation:Plural marriage}}{{blankline}}		{{Navigation:Plural marriage}}{{blankline}}
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SpencerMarsh at 19:55, 9 February 2026

2026-02-09T19:55:35Z

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GregSmith at 09:43, 19 May 2024

2024-05-19T09:43:17Z

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	\|subject=The age of Joseph Smith's wives.		\|subject=The age of Joseph Smith's wives.
	\|summary=How old were Joseph Smith's plural wives? As discussed below, this sealing was likely unconsummated.		\|summary=How old were Joseph Smith's plural wives? As discussed below, this sealing was likely unconsummated.
			}}

			{{SummaryItem
			\|link=Divine_manifestations_to_plural_wives_and_families#Heber_and_Vilate_Kimball
			\|subject=Divine manifestations to plural wives and families
			\|summary=Many members who were taught about plural marriage were initially reluctant or appalled; many reported miraculous divine manifestations convincing them of the truth of the doctrine. Helen's parents were two such members.
	}}		}}

GregSmith: /* Helen and her contemporaries considered her mature for her age */

2024-05-19T09:40:04Z

Helen and her contemporaries considered her mature for her age

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:40, 19 May 2024
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	According to Helen:		According to Helen:
	<blockquote>		<blockquote>
	Sarah Ann's brother, Horace, who was twenty months her senior, made one of the party but had never dreamed of such a thing as matrimony with me, whom he only remembered in the earliest school days in Kirtland as occupying one of the lowest seats. He becoming enough advanced, soon left the one taught in the red schoolhouse on the flat and attended a higher one on the hill, and through our moving to Missouri and Illinois we lost sight of each other. After the party was over I stopped the rest of the night with Sarah, and as her room and his were adjoining, being only separated by a partition, our talk seemed to disturb him, and he was impolite enough to tell us of it, and request us to stop and let him go to sleep, which was proof enough that he had never thought of me only as the green school girl that I was, or he would certainly have submitted gracefully (as lovers always should) to be made a martyr of.<br>~~—~~Helen Mar Kimball Whitney, 1828-1896, Autobiography (c. 1839-1846), "Life Incidents," ''Woman's Exponent'' 9-10 (1880-1882) and "Scenes and Incidents in Nauvoo," ''Woman's Exponent'' 11 (1882-83)) {{link\|url=http://www.boap.org/LDS/Early-Saints/HWhitney.html}}		Sarah Ann's brother, Horace, who was twenty months her senior, made one of the party but had never dreamed of such a thing as matrimony with me, whom he only remembered in the earliest school days in Kirtland as occupying one of the lowest seats. He becoming enough advanced, soon left the one taught in the red schoolhouse on the flat and attended a higher one on the hill, and through our moving to Missouri and Illinois we lost sight of each other. After the party was over I stopped the rest of the night with Sarah, and as her room and his were adjoining, being only separated by a partition, our talk seemed to disturb him, and he was impolite enough to tell us of it, and request us to stop and let him go to sleep, which was proof enough that he had never thought of me only as the green school girl that I was, or he would certainly have submitted gracefully (as lovers always should) to be made a martyr of.<ref>Helen Mar Kimball Whitney, 1828-1896, Autobiography (c. 1839-1846), "Life Incidents," ''Woman's Exponent'' 9-10 (1880-1882) and "Scenes and Incidents in Nauvoo," ''Woman's Exponent'' 11 (1882-83)) {{link\|url=http://www.boap.org/LDS/Early-Saints/HWhitney.html}}</ref>
	</blockquote>		</blockquote>

GregSmith: /* If we accept the statement as valid, we may interpret it in other ways than conjugality. */

2024-05-19T09:39:25Z

If we accept the statement as valid, we may interpret it in other ways than conjugality.

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	After leaving the church, dissenter Catherine Lewis reported Helen saying: "I would never have been sealed to Joseph had I known it was anything more than a ceremony."		After leaving the church, dissenter Catherine Lewis reported Helen saying: "I would never have been sealed to Joseph had I known it was anything more than a ceremony."

	Assuming this statement was accurate, which is not certain, the question arises regarding her meaning of "more than a ceremony"? While sexuality is a possibility, a more likely interpretation is that the ceremony prevented her from associating with her friends as an unmarried teenager, causing her dramatic distress after the sealing.		Assuming this statement was accurate, which is not certain, the question arises regarding her meaning of "more than a ceremony"? While sexuality is a possibility, a more likely interpretation is that the ceremony prevented her from associating with her friends as an unmarried teenager, causing her dramatic distress after the sealing.<ref>See "Helen Mar Kimball" at http://josephsmithspolygamy.org/plural-wives-overview/helen-mar-kimball/</ref></blockquote>
	<ref>See "Helen Mar Kimball" at http://josephsmithspolygamy.org/plural-wives-overview/helen-mar-kimball/</ref></blockquote>

	=Was Helen Mar Kimball's marriage to Joseph Smith ever consummated?=		=Was Helen Mar Kimball's marriage to Joseph Smith ever consummated?=

GregSmith: /* Why the modern world is different */

2024-05-19T09:38:22Z

Why the modern world is different

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	{{SeeAlso\|Mary Elizabeth Rollins Lightner#Was Joseph trying to prey on a young twelve-year-old girl?\|l1=Joseph met a young Mary Elizabeth Rollins Lightner but they were sealed several years later.}}		{{SeeAlso\|Mary Elizabeth Rollins Lightner#Was Joseph trying to prey on a young twelve-year-old girl?\|l1=Joseph met a young Mary Elizabeth Rollins Lightner but they were sealed several years later.}}

			{{To learn more box:polygamy: young women}}{{blankline}}

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GregSmith at 09:37, 19 May 2024

2024-05-19T09:37:10Z

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 <blockquote>
-I felt quite sore over it, and thought it a very unkind act in father to allow William to go and enjoy the dance unrestrained with other of my companions, and fetter me down, for no girl danced better than I did, and I really felt it was too much to bear. It made the dull school more dull, and like a wild bird I longed for the freedom that was denied me; and thought to myself an abused child, and that it was pardonable if I did not murmur.
+During the winter of 1843, there were plenty of parties and balls. … Some of the young gentlemen got up a series of dancing parties, to be held at the Mansion once a week. … I had to stay home, as my father had been warned by the Prophet to keep his daughter away from there, because of the blacklegs and certain ones of questionable character who attended there. … I felt quite sore over it, and thought it a very unkind act in father to allow [my brother] to go and enjoy the dance unrestrained with others of my companions, and fetter me down, for no girl loved dancing better than I did, and I really felt that it was too much to bear. It made the dull school still more dull, and like a wild bird I longed for the freedom that was denied me; and thought myself a much abused child, and that it was pardonable if I did murmur.
 I ''imagined'' that my happiness was all over and brooded over the sad memories of sweet departed joys and all manner of future woes, which (by the by) were of short duration, my bump of hope being too large to admit of my remaining long under the clouds. Besides my father was very kind and indulgent in other ways, and always took me with him when mother could not go, and ''it was not a very long time before I became satisfied that I was blessed in being under the control of so good and wise a parent who had taken counsel and thus saved me from evils'', which some others in their youth and inexperience were exposed to though they thought no evil. Yet the busy tongue of scandal did not spare them. A moral may be drawn from this truthful story. "Children obey thy parents," etc. And also, "Have regard to thy name, for that shall continue with you above a thousand great treasures of gold." "A good life hath but few days; but a good name endureth forever.<ref> Helen Mar Whitney, Scenes and Incidents, 90. {{ia}}</ref>
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 ==If we accept the statement as valid, we may interpret it in other ways than conjugality.==
 As Brian Hales writes:
-"I thought through this life my time will be my own
+<blockquote>It is clear that Helen’s sealing to Joseph Smith prevented her from socializing as an unmarried lady. The primary document referring to the relationship is an 1881 poem penned by Helen that has been interpreted in different ways ...
 After leaving the church, dissenter Catherine Lewis reported Helen saying: "I would never have been sealed to Joseph had I known it was anything more than a ceremony."
 Assuming this statement was accurate, which is not certain, the question arises regarding her meaning of "more than a ceremony"? While sexuality is a possibility, a more likely interpretation is that the ceremony prevented her from associating with her friends as an unmarried teenager, causing her dramatic distress after the sealing.
 <ref>See "Helen Mar Kimball" at http://josephsmithspolygamy.org/plural-wives-overview/helen-mar-kimball/</ref></blockquote>
 =Was Helen Mar Kimball's marriage to Joseph Smith ever consummated?=
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 [[es:José Smith/Poligamia/Esposas plurales/Helen Mar Kimball/Las circunstancias de su matrimonio plural]]
 [[pt:Joseph Smith/Poligamia/Esposas plurais/Helen Mar Kimball/As circunstâncias de seu casamento plural]]

GregSmith: /* Helen was not called to testify in the Temple Lot case, in which the Church was attempting to prove that Joseph had normal marital relations with some of his plural wives, even though she was available */

2024-05-19T09:32:51Z

Helen was not called to testify in the Temple Lot case, in which the Church was attempting to prove that Joseph had normal marital relations with some of his plural wives, even though she was available

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:32, 19 May 2024
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	==Helen was not called to testify in the Temple Lot case, in which the Church was attempting to prove that Joseph had normal marital relations with some of his plural wives, even though she was available==		==Helen was not called to testify in the Temple Lot case, in which the Church was attempting to prove that Joseph had normal marital relations with some of his plural wives, even though she was available==


	*Helen’s feelings in the months after her sealing don’t seem to reflect those of one who considered herself married. Fourteen is young, but certainly old enough to understand the expectations of a married woman. It seems that if Helen were sexually involved with the Prophet as a plural wife, her anticipation of pregnancy and other wifely responsibilities might have made it clear to her that she was no longer single.
	*After leaving the church, dissenter Catherine Lewis reported Helen saying: "I would never have been sealed to Joseph had I known it was anything more than a ceremony."<ref>Catherine Lewis, ''Narrative of Some of the Proceedings of the Mormons; Giving an Account of their Iniquities'' (Lynn, MA: Self-Published, 1848), 19.</ref> Assuming this statement was accurate, which is not certain, the question arises regarding her meaning of "more than a ceremony"?<ref>Concerning Catherine Lewis' book, Laurel Thatcher Ulrich wrote: "The exposé she composed on returning to Massachusetts has the ring of authenticity, even though its polished prose surely owes more to the Protestant minister who was her editor than to her own fluent but poorly spelled writing." Laurel Thatcher Ulrich, ''A House Full of Females: Plural Marriage and Women’s rights in Early Mormonism 1835–1870'' (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 2017), 132.</ref> While sexuality is a possibility, a more likely interpretation is that the ceremony prevented her from associating with her friends as an unmarried teenager, causing her dramatic distress after the sealing. This is explored more [[Did Helen Mar Kimball "confess" to having marital relations with Joseph?\|elsewhere]] on the wiki.
	*During the proceedings of the Temple Lot lawsuit in 1892-1893, three plural wives of Joseph Smith (Lucy Walker, Emily Partridge, and Malissa Lott) were deposed.<ref>Malissa Lott, Deposition, Temple Lot Transcript, Respondent’s Testimony, Part 3, page 105, question 227; Lucy Walker, Deposition, Temple Lot Transcript, Respondent’s Testimony, Part 3, pp. 450–51, 468, 473, questions 29–30, 463–74, 586. See also Lucy Walker, "Lucy Walker Statement," n.d., quoted in Rodney W. Walker and Noel W. Stevenson, Ancestry and Descendants of John Walker [1794–1869] of Vermont and Utah, Descendants of Robert Walker, an Emigrant of 1632 from England to Boston, Mass., 35.</ref> Why was Helen Kimball Whitney not also called to testify in the Temple Lot trial regarding her marriage relations with Joseph Smith? She lived in Salt Lake City, geographically much closer than two of the three witnesses: Malissa Lott live thirty miles south in Lehi, and Lucy Walker lived eighty-two miles north in Logan. A likely reason is that Helen could not provide the needed testimony. All three of Joseph Smith’s wives who did testify affirmed that sexual relations were part of their plural marriages to the Prophet. Testifying of either an unconsummated time-and-eternity sealing or an eternity-only marriage would have hurt the Temple Lot case. Such marriages would have been easily dismissed as unimportant.
	*In February 1846, following the Prophet’s death, Helen was sealed for time to Horace Whitney in the Nauvoo temple.<ref>Holzapfel and Holzapfel, ''A Woman's View'', 327.</ref> After the death of her second child in as many years, Helen fell into a deep depression, lamenting she "hated polygamy."<ref>Augusta Joyce Crocheron, ''Representative Women of Deseret'' (Salt Lake City: J.C. Graham & Co., 1884), 112, italics added. </ref> Her reason was not because of her personal polygamy-related struggles, if she had by then actually experienced a polygamous relationship. She related she hated polygamy because of the trials she had seen her mother go through.

	Brian Hales observes:		Brian Hales observes:
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	The lack of evidence does not prove the lack of sexual relations, but these observations are consistent with an unconsummated union.</blockquote>		The lack of evidence does not prove the lack of sexual relations, but these observations are consistent with an unconsummated union.</blockquote>

	==Helen became an advocate of plural marriage and vigorously defended it==		==Helen became an advocate of plural marriage and vigorously defended it==

GregSmith at 09:32, 19 May 2024

2024-05-19T09:32:20Z

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 ==Helen was not called to testify in the Temple Lot case, in which the Church was attempting to prove that Joseph had normal marital relations with some of his plural wives, even though she was available==
 *Helen’s feelings in the months after her sealing don’t seem to reflect those of one who considered herself married. Fourteen is young, but certainly old enough to understand the expectations of a married woman. It seems that if Helen were sexually involved with the Prophet as a plural wife, her anticipation of pregnancy and other wifely responsibilities might have made it clear to her that she was no longer single.
@@ Line 45: / Line 46: @@
 *In February 1846, following the Prophet’s death, Helen was sealed for time to Horace Whitney in the Nauvoo temple.<ref>Holzapfel and Holzapfel, ''A Woman's View'', 327.</ref>  After the death of her second child in as many years, Helen fell into a deep depression, lamenting she "hated polygamy."<ref>Augusta Joyce Crocheron, ''Representative Women of Deseret'' (Salt Lake City: J.C. Graham & Co., 1884), 112, italics added. </ref> Her reason was not because of her personal polygamy-related struggles, if she had by then actually experienced a polygamous relationship. She related she hated polygamy because of the trials she had seen her mother go through.
 ==Helen became an advocate of plural marriage and vigorously defended it==
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 Helen specifically mentioned that she was regarded as mature.<ref>{{nc}}</ref> 'Pedophilia' is an inflammatory charge that refers to a sexual attraction to pre-pubertal children. It simply does not apply in the present case, even if the relationship had been consummated.
 ==Four Key Questions==
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 {{SeeAlso|Mary Elizabeth Rollins Lightner#Was Joseph trying to prey on a young twelve-year-old girl?|l1=Joseph met a young Mary Elizabeth Rollins Lightner but they were sealed several years later.}}
 {{endnotes sources}}