Plan of salvation/Sons of Perdition - Revision history

DavidSmith: added section

2024-05-23T17:36:10Z

added section

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:36, 23 May 2024
Line 62:		Line 62:

	==Question: Will the Sons of Perdition be given another chance to achieve celestial glory?==		==Question: Will the Sons of Perdition be given another chance to achieve celestial glory?==
			===No desire to repent===
			Asking if the sons of perdition will ''be given'' another chance to achieve celestial glory is immaterial, because ''they will not choose'' to take advantage of another chance. Of those who become sons of perdition the Lord said: "And they that believe not unto eternal damnation; for ''they cannot be redeemed from their spiritual fall, because they repent not''; for they love darkness rather than light, and their deeds are evil, and they receive their wages of whom they list to obey" (Doctrine and Covenants 29:44–45; italics added). Expounding on this, scholar Terryl Givens noted:
			<blockquote>
			Think about what are the preconditions for what we consider to be an unforgiveable sin. The preconditions are that you have an absolutely full knowledge, understanding, insight into the significance of your choice, and yet you make it. The reason why that kind of a choice can't be forgivable is because it's not reputable. If you have all the information that is ever going to be available to you—all of the faculties under your full control and dominion—then there's no conceivable basis for ever changing. And so God's grace can't reach you because you are not capable of remaking that decision.<ref>[https://faithmatters.org/exploring-atonement-a-conversation-with-terryl-givens/ "172. Exploring Atonement—A Conversation with Terryl Givens,"] Faith Matters podcast, 24 June 2023.</ref>
			</blockquote>

	===The First Presidency warned against teaching "another chance" doctrine===		===The First Presidency warned against teaching "another chance" doctrine===
	In 1833, the First Presidency emphasized that teaching that the sons of perdition would be restored was not authorized:		In 1833, the First Presidency emphasized that teaching that the sons of perdition would be restored was not authorized:

GregSmith: Bot replace {{FairMormon}} with {{Main Page}} and remove extra lines around {{Header}}, replaced: -- → — (3)

2024-04-13T21:08:06Z

Bot replace {{FairMormon}} with {{Main Page}} and remove extra lines around {{Header}}, replaced: -- → — (3)

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:08, 13 April 2024
Line 1:		Line 1:
	{{~~FairMormon~~}}		{{Main Page}}
	<onlyinclude>		<onlyinclude>
	=Sons of Perdition=		=Sons of Perdition=
Line 188:		Line 188:
	The next day, during Priesthood Session, President Stephen L Richards said:		The next day, during Priesthood Session, President Stephen L Richards said:
	<blockquote>		<blockquote>
	It is a tremendous responsibility to bear the Holy Priesthood. I wish all of you -- perhaps all did not -- had heard what President Joseph Fielding Smith told us yesterday, something I have long believed, and I was glad to have sanction for my belief. He said in substance that there will be ''no Sons of Perdition who do not hold the Priesthood''. I have believed that for years because I do not think that the Lord in his mercy would ever condemn a man to that indescribable penalty of being put out entirely from the Kingdom and from all grace unless that man knew that Jesus was the Christ, unless he knew the power of the Christ, and he could only know that, I think by holding the Priesthood. I believe that in the main that can be said to be true -- that only men who hold the Priesthood of God stand in danger of that terrible penalty of being classed as outcasts {{ea}} .<ref>{{CR1\|author=Stephen L Richards\|date=October 1958\|start=86}}</ref>		It is a tremendous responsibility to bear the Holy Priesthood. I wish all of you—perhaps all did not—had heard what President Joseph Fielding Smith told us yesterday, something I have long believed, and I was glad to have sanction for my belief. He said in substance that there will be ''no Sons of Perdition who do not hold the Priesthood''. I have believed that for years because I do not think that the Lord in his mercy would ever condemn a man to that indescribable penalty of being put out entirely from the Kingdom and from all grace unless that man knew that Jesus was the Christ, unless he knew the power of the Christ, and he could only know that, I think by holding the Priesthood. I believe that in the main that can be said to be true—that only men who hold the Priesthood of God stand in danger of that terrible penalty of being classed as outcasts {{ea}} .<ref>{{CR1\|author=Stephen L Richards\|date=October 1958\|start=86}}</ref>
	</blockquote>		</blockquote>

GregSmith: bot - remove old references code

2024-04-13T02:55:58Z

bot - remove old references code

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:55, 13 April 2024
Line 209:		Line 209:

	[[es:El plan de salvación/Hijos de Perdición]]		[[es:El plan de salvación/Hijos de Perdición]]

	~~==References==~~
	~~{{Reflist}}~~

GregSmith: bot replace scripture DC with D&C (old version of template couldn't use amperstand), replaced: {{s||DC| → {{s||D&C| (4)

2024-04-12T23:55:34Z

bot replace scripture DC with D&C (old version of template couldn't use amperstand), replaced: {{s||DC| → {{s||D&C| (4)

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:55, 12 April 2024
Line 22:		Line 22:

	<blockquote>		<blockquote>
	A careful reading of these verses [{{s\|\|DC\|76\|38-39}}], however, and especially of the preceding paragraphs, will show that the Lord does not, in this language, exclude even the sons of perdition from the resurrection. It is plain that the intention is to refer to them explicitly as the only ones on whom the second death shall have any power: "for all the rest shall be brought forth by the resurrection of the dead, through the triumph and the glory of the Lamb." This excluded class are the only ones on whom the second death shall have any power, and "the only ones who shall not be redeemed in the due time of the Lord after the sufferings of his wrath."<ref>{{JI1\|author=George Q. Cannon\|article=The Resurrection As Affecting the Sons of Perdition\|date=15 February 1900\|start=123}}</ref>		A careful reading of these verses [{{s\|\|D&C\|76\|38-39}}], however, and especially of the preceding paragraphs, will show that the Lord does not, in this language, exclude even the sons of perdition from the resurrection. It is plain that the intention is to refer to them explicitly as the only ones on whom the second death shall have any power: "for all the rest shall be brought forth by the resurrection of the dead, through the triumph and the glory of the Lamb." This excluded class are the only ones on whom the second death shall have any power, and "the only ones who shall not be redeemed in the due time of the Lord after the sufferings of his wrath."<ref>{{JI1\|author=George Q. Cannon\|article=The Resurrection As Affecting the Sons of Perdition\|date=15 February 1900\|start=123}}</ref>

	I was given to understand, while I and others of the brethren were in exile, that because of this passage [{{s\|\|DC\|76\|32-39}}], contained in this revelation, some of the Elders had conceived the idea, and were teaching it, that the sons of perdition would not be resurrected; and inquiry was made of us concerning it. The doctrine as taught, was, that a certain class of spirits that had received tabernacles upon the earth, would not be resurrected; and to sustain this view [p.379] the paragraphs just read were quoted: "For all the rest shall be brought forth by the resurrection of the dead, through the triumph and the glory of the Lamb, who was slain, who was in the bosom of the Father before the worlds were made." Because of this language some have inferred that all the rest would be resurrected, and the sons of perdition would not be resurrected. If you will read the context carefully you will see this is not the meaning. "And the only ones on whom the second death shall have any power; Yea, verily, the only ones who shall not be redeemed in the due time of the Lord, * * * For all the rest shall be brought forth," etc. That is, they will be redeemed and brought forth, but they will not be brought forth in the manner that we will be resurrected; they will not receive that redemption which the rest of the children of men will receive. God in this glorious revelation through His servant, Joseph, taught this to us: that there will be a time when every human being, except the sons of perdition, will partake of the salvation of our God. And even, it is said concerning them of the telestial glory, that they are heirs of salvation. But the sons of perdition are not heirs of salvation; they will not receive redemption, they having committed the unpardonable sin, from which they never can be redeemed, so far, at least, as God has taught us in His revelations. Now if you will turn to the 29th section of the Doctrine and Covenants, you will find how plain the Lord has made this matter, so plain as to leave no doubt about it....<ref>{{CD1 \|author=George Q. Cannon\|article=Union, Fate of Sons of Perdition\|date=6 October 1889\|vol=1\|start=378–379}} </ref>		I was given to understand, while I and others of the brethren were in exile, that because of this passage [{{s\|\|D&C\|76\|32-39}}], contained in this revelation, some of the Elders had conceived the idea, and were teaching it, that the sons of perdition would not be resurrected; and inquiry was made of us concerning it. The doctrine as taught, was, that a certain class of spirits that had received tabernacles upon the earth, would not be resurrected; and to sustain this view [p.379] the paragraphs just read were quoted: "For all the rest shall be brought forth by the resurrection of the dead, through the triumph and the glory of the Lamb, who was slain, who was in the bosom of the Father before the worlds were made." Because of this language some have inferred that all the rest would be resurrected, and the sons of perdition would not be resurrected. If you will read the context carefully you will see this is not the meaning. "And the only ones on whom the second death shall have any power; Yea, verily, the only ones who shall not be redeemed in the due time of the Lord, * * * For all the rest shall be brought forth," etc. That is, they will be redeemed and brought forth, but they will not be brought forth in the manner that we will be resurrected; they will not receive that redemption which the rest of the children of men will receive. God in this glorious revelation through His servant, Joseph, taught this to us: that there will be a time when every human being, except the sons of perdition, will partake of the salvation of our God. And even, it is said concerning them of the telestial glory, that they are heirs of salvation. But the sons of perdition are not heirs of salvation; they will not receive redemption, they having committed the unpardonable sin, from which they never can be redeemed, so far, at least, as God has taught us in His revelations. Now if you will turn to the 29th section of the Doctrine and Covenants, you will find how plain the Lord has made this matter, so plain as to leave no doubt about it....<ref>{{CD1 \|author=George Q. Cannon\|article=Union, Fate of Sons of Perdition\|date=6 October 1889\|vol=1\|start=378–379}}</ref>
	</blockquote>		</blockquote>

Line 48:		Line 48:

	<blockquote>		<blockquote>
	'Whether the sons of perdition will be privileged to retain their bodies after the resurrection, or whether they will be resurrected or not?' First, yes. They will doubtless be resurrected. Second, yes. They will without doubt retain their bodies. First see {{s\|\|DC\|29\|26,27}}. This means all the dead shall be raised from the dead. Again see {{s\|\|Alma\|11\|43,44}}, {{b\|\|Revelation\|20\|11-15}}, {{b\|1\|Corinthians\|15\|21-23}}. Second, {{s\|\|Mosiah\|16\|11}}, {{s\|\|DC\|29\|27-28}}, {{s\|\|Alma\|11\|45}}, {{s\|\|Alma\|34\|34}}. . . .<ref>{{ProphetToSons1\|start=68}}</ref>		'Whether the sons of perdition will be privileged to retain their bodies after the resurrection, or whether they will be resurrected or not?' First, yes. They will doubtless be resurrected. Second, yes. They will without doubt retain their bodies. First see {{s\|\|D&C\|29\|26,27}}. This means all the dead shall be raised from the dead. Again see {{s\|\|Alma\|11\|43,44}}, {{b\|\|Revelation\|20\|11-15}}, {{b\|1\|Corinthians\|15\|21-23}}. Second, {{s\|\|Mosiah\|16\|11}}, {{s\|\|D&C\|29\|27-28}}, {{s\|\|Alma\|11\|45}}, {{s\|\|Alma\|34\|34}}. . . .<ref>{{ProphetToSons1\|start=68}}</ref>
	</blockquote>		</blockquote>

Line 91:		Line 91:
	Joseph F. Smith said,		Joseph F. Smith said,
	<blockquote>		<blockquote>
	Thus we see that the first death which came into the world is also the last death which shall be pronounced upon the sons of perdition. What is it? Banishment from the presence of God. Banishment from the power of God. Banishment from the glory of God. Banishment from the joys of heaven. Banishment from all progress. Banishment into outer darkness. Banishment into hell, which is as a lake of fire and brimstone, where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched, because the soul lives and is bound to live on, suffering the damnation of hell. This is what I understand spiritual death is. I do not understand it to be the separation of the body and the spirit again. I do not understand it to be the dissolution of the spirit into its [p.228] native element. I understand the second death to be the same as the first death-spiritual death; the same condition that Adam was in and that he had to be redeemed from by the blood of Christ, and by faith and obedience to the commands of God. By this means Adam was redeemed from the first death, and brought back again into the presence of God, back again into the favor of the Almighty, back again into the channel of eternal increase and progress. And if a man, after being placed in this condition, shall deny the Holy Ghost and Jesus Christ, putting Him again to open shame and crucifying Him afresh, then that first death which fell upon our first parents will again be pronounced upon that man, and it is not written that he shall ever be delivered from it. It is not written that there is any forgiveness for it, nor any redemption therefrom.<ref>{{CD1 \|author=Joseph F. Smith\|article=The Second Death\|date=20 January 1895\|vol=4\|start=227–228}} </ref>		Thus we see that the first death which came into the world is also the last death which shall be pronounced upon the sons of perdition. What is it? Banishment from the presence of God. Banishment from the power of God. Banishment from the glory of God. Banishment from the joys of heaven. Banishment from all progress. Banishment into outer darkness. Banishment into hell, which is as a lake of fire and brimstone, where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched, because the soul lives and is bound to live on, suffering the damnation of hell. This is what I understand spiritual death is. I do not understand it to be the separation of the body and the spirit again. I do not understand it to be the dissolution of the spirit into its [p.228] native element. I understand the second death to be the same as the first death-spiritual death; the same condition that Adam was in and that he had to be redeemed from by the blood of Christ, and by faith and obedience to the commands of God. By this means Adam was redeemed from the first death, and brought back again into the presence of God, back again into the favor of the Almighty, back again into the channel of eternal increase and progress. And if a man, after being placed in this condition, shall deny the Holy Ghost and Jesus Christ, putting Him again to open shame and crucifying Him afresh, then that first death which fell upon our first parents will again be pronounced upon that man, and it is not written that he shall ever be delivered from it. It is not written that there is any forgiveness for it, nor any redemption therefrom.<ref>{{CD1 \|author=Joseph F. Smith\|article=The Second Death\|date=20 January 1895\|vol=4\|start=227–228}}</ref>
	</blockquote>		</blockquote>

Line 105:		Line 105:
	</blockquote>		</blockquote>

	However, more recent Church leaders such as Joseph Fielding Smith and Bruce R. McConkie have rejected the idea that those in perdition can ultimately be redeemed, which contradicts Brigham's speculations.<ref>See {{DoS1 \| vol=2\|start=31}}; Bruce R. McConkie, "[[~~Primary_souces~~:~~Seven_deadly_heresies~~\|Seven Deadly Heresies]]," 1 June 1980, BYU Marriot Center.</ref> Elders Smith and McConkie were concerned that the view advanced by Brigham might "lull men into a state of carnal security,"<ref>McConkie, "Seven Deadly Heresies."</ref> and thus hamper their mortal probation.		However, more recent Church leaders such as Joseph Fielding Smith and Bruce R. McConkie have rejected the idea that those in perdition can ultimately be redeemed, which contradicts Brigham's speculations.<ref>See {{DoS1 \| vol=2\|start=31}}; Bruce R. McConkie, "[[Primary souces:Seven deadly heresies\|Seven Deadly Heresies]]," 1 June 1980, BYU Marriot Center.</ref> Elders Smith and McConkie were concerned that the view advanced by Brigham might "lull men into a state of carnal security,"<ref>McConkie, "Seven Deadly Heresies."</ref> and thus hamper their mortal probation.

	Brigham's speculations are interesting but are not official doctrine, and stand in contrast to teachings of other Church leaders past and present. Perhaps it is significant that in the official Church manual ''Teachings of the Presidents of the Church: Brigham Young'', a segment from a sermon given August 26, 1860 is included as follows:		Brigham's speculations are interesting but are not official doctrine, and stand in contrast to teachings of other Church leaders past and present. Perhaps it is significant that in the official Church manual ''Teachings of the Presidents of the Church: Brigham Young'', a segment from a sermon given August 26, 1860 is included as follows:
Line 164:		Line 164:

	====Joseph F. Smith offered conflicting statements on the state of women among the sons of perdition====		====Joseph F. Smith offered conflicting statements on the state of women among the sons of perdition====
	While Joseph F. Smith was expressing his view that there would be no daughters of perdition, Wilford Woodruff and George Q. Cannon saw things in a different light: "That there will also be daughters of perdition there is no doubt in the minds of the brethren."<ref>{{CriticalWork:Quinn:Mormon Hierarchy2\|pages=795}} </ref>		While Joseph F. Smith was expressing his view that there would be no daughters of perdition, Wilford Woodruff and George Q. Cannon saw things in a different light: "That there will also be daughters of perdition there is no doubt in the minds of the brethren."<ref>{{CriticalWork:Quinn:Mormon Hierarchy2\|pages=795}}</ref>

	In 1895, Joseph F. Smith stated:		In 1895, Joseph F. Smith stated:
Line 209:		Line 209:

	[[es:El plan de salvación/Hijos de Perdición]]		[[es:El plan de salvación/Hijos de Perdición]]

			==References==
			{{Reflist}}

DavidSmith: updated page

2022-11-27T21:14:39Z

updated page

Show changes

DavidSmith: moving content to this page

2022-11-27T15:38:42Z

moving content to this page

Show changes

FairMormonBot: Bot: Automated text replacement (-\|H2 +|H)

2017-06-27T02:21:27Z

Bot: Automated text replacement (-\|H2 +|H)

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:21, 27 June 2017
Line 3:		Line 3:
	{{H2		{{H2
	\|L=Plan of salvation/Sons of Perdition		\|L=Plan of salvation/Sons of Perdition
	\|H2=Sons of Perdition		\|H=Sons of Perdition
	\|S=		\|S=
	\|L1=Question: Are there women who would be among those cast into outer darkness? Are there female "Sons of Perdition"?		\|L1=Question: Are there women who would be among those cast into outer darkness? Are there female "Sons of Perdition"?

FairMormonBot: Bot: Automated text replacement (-{{Articles FAIR copyright}} +{{FairMormon}})

2017-06-08T20:15:55Z

Bot: Automated text replacement (-{{Articles FAIR copyright}} +{{FairMormon}})

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:15, 8 June 2017
Line 1:		Line 1:
	{{~~Articles FAIR copyright~~}}		{{FairMormon}}
	<onlyinclude>		<onlyinclude>
	{{H2		{{H2

FairMormonBot: Bot: Automated text replacement (-\|sublink +|L)

2017-06-08T08:29:38Z

Bot: Automated text replacement (-\|sublink +|L)

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:29, 8 June 2017
Line 6:		Line 6:
	\|S=		\|S=
	\|L1=Question: Are there women who would be among those cast into outer darkness? Are there female "Sons of Perdition"?		\|L1=Question: Are there women who would be among those cast into outer darkness? Are there female "Sons of Perdition"?
	\|~~sublink2~~=Question: What must one do in order to become a "Son of Perdition"?		\|L2=Question: What must one do in order to become a "Son of Perdition"?
	\|~~sublink3~~=Question: Will sons of perdition be resurrected?		\|L3=Question: Will sons of perdition be resurrected?
	\|~~sublink4~~=Question: Will the Sons of Perdition be given another chance to achieve celestial glory?		\|L4=Question: Will the Sons of Perdition be given another chance to achieve celestial glory?
	}}		}}
	</onlyinclude>		</onlyinclude>

FairMormonBot: Bot: Automated text replacement (-{{SummaryHeader\n\|link=(.)\n\|subject=(.)\n\|summary=(.*)\n\|sublink +{{H2\n|L=\1\n|H2=\2\n|S=\3\n|L)

2017-06-08T06:06:52Z

Bot: Automated text replacement (-{{SummaryHeader\n\|link=(.*)\n\|subject=(.*)\n\|summary=(.*)\n\|sublink +{{H2\n|L=\1\n|H2=\2\n|S=\3\n|L)

← Older revision		Revision as of 06:06, 8 June 2017
Line 1:		Line 1:
	{{Articles FAIR copyright}}		{{Articles FAIR copyright}}
	<onlyinclude>		<onlyinclude>
	{{~~SummaryHeader~~		{{H2
	\|~~link~~=Plan of salvation/Sons of Perdition		\|L=Plan of salvation/Sons of Perdition
	\|~~subject~~=Sons of Perdition		\|H2=Sons of Perdition
	\|~~summary~~=		\|S=
	\|~~sublink1~~=Question: Are there women who would be among those cast into outer darkness? Are there female "Sons of Perdition"?		\|L1=Question: Are there women who would be among those cast into outer darkness? Are there female "Sons of Perdition"?
	\|sublink2=Question: What must one do in order to become a "Son of Perdition"?		\|sublink2=Question: What must one do in order to become a "Son of Perdition"?
	\|sublink3=Question: Will sons of perdition be resurrected?		\|sublink3=Question: Will sons of perdition be resurrected?