Criticism of Mormonism/Books/An Insider's View of Mormon Origins/Chapter 6

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Claims made in "Chapter 5: Moroni and 'The Golden Pot'"
A FAIR Analysis of:
Criticism of Mormonism/Books
A work by author: Grant Palmer
 Claims made in "Chapter 7: Priesthood Restoration"

Claims made in "Chapter 6: Witnesses to the Golden Plates"

These ideas may have been Joseph's inspiration for making a plate-like object to persuade belief.
—An Insider's View of Mormon Origins, p. 207

∗       ∗       ∗

175

Claim
  • The witnesses had a "magical mindset" and believed in "second sight"

Author's source(s)
  • None
Response

175-176, n2-4

Claim
  • The witnesses believed in the ability to see spirits and their dwelling places within the local hills.

Author's source(s)
Response

178, n7-8

Claim
  • Martin Harris participated in his own "treasure adventures" after meeting Joseph Smith.

Author's source(s)
  • Ole A. Jensen, "Testimony Given to Ole A. Jensen by Martin Harris," July 1875,3, archives, Historical Department, Church ofJesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Salt Lake City (hereafter LDS archives); quoted in Dan Vogel, Early Mormon Documents 2:376.
  • Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 19:37.
  • Brigham Young, Office Journal, 21 Nov. 1861, LDS archives.
Response

178, n9-10

Claim
  • Martin Harris said that he "informed Joseph Smith about the gold plates" and that he could see the gold plates through a cloth.

Author's source(s)
  • Martin Harris, interview by Joel Tiffany, Jan. 1859, in "Mormonism," Tiffany's Monthly (New York City) 5 (Aug. 1859): 166; quoted in Vogel, Early Mormon Documents, 2:306.
  • Martin Harris, interview by John A. Clark, 1828, in "Modern Superstition-The Mormonites," The Visitor, or Monthly Instructor, for 1841, 239; quoted in Vogel, Early Mormon Documents, 2:270.
Response

179

Claim
  • The Whitmers all believed that they could see things with stones and dowsing sticks.

Response

179, n11-12

Claim
  • The author claims that Oliver Cowdery was a treasure hunter and "rodsman" before he met Joseph Smith, and that William Cowdery (Oliver's father) was associated with a treasure seeking group in Vermont.

Author's source(s)
  • Vogel, "Barnes Frisbie Account," Early Mormon Documents, 1:599-621.
  • Book of Commandments 7:3 (1833), in Wilford C. Wood, ed., Joseph Smith Begins His Work: The Book of Commandments, 2 vols. (Salt Lake City: by the Author, 1962), vol. 2; d. D&C 8:6-8.
Response

179, n13

Claim
  • Oliver Cowdery and Martin Harris saw the plates in a vision before meeting Joseph Smith.

Author's source(s)
  • Martin Harris, interview by Joel Tiffany, Jan. 1859, in "Mormonism," Tiffany's Monthly (New York City) 5 (Aug. 1859): 166; quoted in Vogel, Early Mormon Documents, 2:306.
  • Dean C. Jessee, ed., The Papers of Joseph Smith: Autobiographical and Historical Writings (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1989), 1: 10.
Response

181

Claim
  • David and possibly John Whitmer owned seer stones.

Author's source(s)
Response
 FAIR WIKI EDITORS: Check sources

186

Claim
  • According to the author, Brigham Young heard from the Smiths and believed all his life that "these treasures that are in the earth are carefully watched; they can be removed from place to place" by the angels. (emphasis added)

Author's source(s)
Response
  • The author takes a quote spoken by Brigham Young in 1877 in which he discourages prospecting for minerals in Utah, and implies that his belief regarding "moving treasure" originated with "the Smiths." Brigham goes on to talk about the difficulty in obtaining treasures from the earth, and relates a story involving Porter Rockwell as well as a story he heard from Oliver Cowdery about how the plates were returned to the angel Moroni. Nowhere in his discourse does Brigham mention "the Smiths."

186

Claim
  • The Smith's often told neighbors stories about treasures Joseph found in the earth.

Author's source(s)
  • Jesse Smith to Hyrum Smith, 17 June 1829, Joseph Smith Letterbook, 2:59-61, LDS archives; quoted in Vogel, Early Mormon Documents, 1:552.
Response

188

Claim
  • Joseph claimed to know the location of Captain Kidd's treasure.

Author's source(s)
  • Statement of W. R. Hine in Deming, Naked Truths 1 Jan. 1888): 2.
Response

191

Claim
  • A number of witnesses saw a cave in the Hill Cumorah when the plates were returned to the angel.

Author's source(s)
  • Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 19:38..
  • Wilford Woodruff's journal, 1833-98, typescript, ed. Scott G. Kenny, 9 vols. (Midvale, UT: Signature Books, 1984), 11 Dec. 1869, 6:508-9.
Response

194

Claim
  • Martin Harris said that marvelous things appeared to Hyrum, Joseph Sr. and Joseph Jr. while they were treasure hunting.

Author's source(s)
  • Martin Harris, Tiffany's Monthly 5 (Aug. 1859): 165; quoted in Vogel, Early Mormon Documents, 2:305.
Response

194-195

Claim
  • The gold plates that the "witnesses" saw are said to have disappeared when placed on the ground at the hill Cumorah.

Author's source(s)
Response

195

Claim
  • The witnesses believed that there was a toad the turned into something else hiding in the box that held the plates.

Author's source(s)
Response

197, n57

Claim
  • The author claims that the testimony of the Three Witnesses was of a vision rather than an actual visit by an angel.

Author's source(s)
  • Jessee, Papers of Joseph Smith 1:296.
Response

197-198, n58-61

Claim
  • It is claimed that David Whitmer indicated that the visit of the angel was spiritual rather than real.

Author's source(s)
  • James Henry Moyle, Journal, 28 June 1885,James Henry Moyle Papers, F508:1, LDS archives.
  • Nibley, Witnesses of the Book of Mormon, 92-95.
  • David Whitmer, interview by Zenas H. Gurley Jr., 14 Jan. 1885, typescript, 04681, LDS archives.
  • David Whitmer, interview by Edmund C. Briggs, in "Letter from Edmund C. Briggs to Joseph Smith III," 4 June 1884, Saints' Herald, 21 June 1884, 396
  • David Whitmer, interview by Edward Stevenson, Journal, 22 Dec. 1877,4806:2, LDS archives.
  • David Whitmer, An Address to All Believers in Christ,32
  • Francis Kirkham, A New Witness for Christ in America, 2:349-50.
Response

198, n62-64

Claim
  • Martin Harris claimed to see the plates with "the eye of faith."

Author's source(s)
  • Martin Harris, interview by Anthony Metcalf, ca. 1873, in Ten Years before the Mast 70; quoted in Vogel, Early Mormon Documents, 2:346-47.
  • Martin Harris, quoted in The Visitor, or Monthly Instructor, for 1841, 239; quoted in Vogel, Early Mormon Documents, 2:270.
  • Marvin S. Hill, "Secular or Sectarian History? A Critique of No Man Knows My History, Church History 43 (Mar. 1974): 92-93; quoted in Vogel, Early Mormon Documents, 2:385, 526.
Response

198, n65

Claim
  • Some of the three witnesses claimed that they handled the plates during the angel's visit.

Author's source(s)
  • 65. Lucy Smith, "Preliminary Manuscript," in Vogel, Early Mormon Documents, 1:395.
Response
 FAIR WIKI EDITORS: Check sources

200, n72-73

Claim
  • David Whitmer is said to have claimed that he handled the plates in vision, but not physically.

Author's source(s)
  • Moyle, Journal, 28 June 1885.
  • Nibley, Witnesses of the Book of Mormon, 94-95.
Response

204, n83

Claim
  • The author claims that the testimony of the Eight Witnesses does not actually describe a physical incident.

Author's source(s)
  • Stephen Burnett to Lyman E. Johnson, 15 Apr. 1838, Joseph Smith Letterbook, 2:64-66, d155/2:2, LDS archives; quoted in Vogel, Early Mormon Documents, 2:288-93.
Response

204-205, n84

Claim
  • Martin Harris is said to have claimed that none of the witnesses saw or handled the plates.

Author's source(s)
  • Warren Parrish to E. Holmes, 11 Aug. 1838, The Evangelist, 1 Oct. 1838,226.
Response

206

Claim
  • The Eight Witnesses are claimed to have "hesitated to sign" their testimony because their experience was not physical.

Author's source(s)
  • Reference for phrase "hesitated to sign" is related to earlier note 83, page 204. Stephen Burnett to Lyman E. Johnson, 15 Apr. 1838, Joseph Smith Letterbook, 2:64-66, d155/2:2, LDS archives; quoted in Vogel, Early Mormon Documents, 2:288-93.
Response

206

Claim
  • The author claims that the gold plates belong to another world rather than this one.

Author's source(s)
  • Author's opinion.
Response

206, n89

Claim
  • The author claims that the plates were able to sink and glide through the ground and made noise as they were "rumbling" through the hill.

Author's source(s)
  • Martin Harris, quoted in John A. Clark, "Modern Superstition-The Mormonites," 63; quoted in Vogel, Early Mormon Documents, 2:265.
  • Affidavit of Willard Chase, 11 Dec. 1833, in Eber D. Howe, Mormonism Unvailed (Painesville, OH, 1834), 242. (Affidavits examined).
  • Lucy Smith, History of Joseph Smith, 83-84.
Response

206-207, n90

Claim
  • Viewing the gold plates "too soon" would cause physical death.

Author's source(s)
  • Joseph Smith-History 1:42.
  • Affidavit of Sophia Lewis, 20 Mar. 1834, Susquehanna Register, 1 May 1834, 1.
  • Eber D. Howe, Mormonism Unvailed (Painesville, OH, 1834), 272. (Affidavits examined).
Response

207, n91

Claim
  • According to the author, declarations of the witnesses "sounded more physical than was intended."

Author's source(s)
  • Moses 6:36.
  • D&C 67:10; 131:7.
  • Lucy Smith, History of Joseph Smith, 92.
Response

207

Claim
  •  Author's quote: These ideas may have been Joseph's inspiration for making a plate-like object to persuade belief.

Author's source(s)
  • Author's speculation.
Response

211, n94

Claim
  • Joseph is claimed to have appointed James Strang as his successor.

Author's source(s)
  • James J. Strang, "Letter from Joseph Smith to James J. Strang," 18 June 1844, in Voree [WI] Herald 1 (Jan. 1846).
Response

208, n95

Claim
  • James Strang also produced witnesses to metal plates.

Author's source(s)
  • James J. Strang, "Revelation Given to James J. Strang," 1 Sept. 1845, Voree Herald 1 Gan. 1846): [3-4]; Van Noord, King of Beaver Island, 33-35.
Response

212, n105

Claim
  • All the living witnesses except Oliver Cowdery accepted James Strang's leadership.

Author's source(s)
  • "Kirtland," in Voree Herald 1 (Sept. 1846): [4]
Response

Further reading

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