Countercult ministries/Watchman Fellowship

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Countercult ministries: Watchman Fellowship

Claim Evaluation

Watchman Fellowship

Response to claims made by Watchman Fellowship

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• Response to claims in "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Profile" by Watchman Fellowship
• Response to claims in "Hinckley Claims LDS Worship Different Christ" by Watchman Fellowship
• Response to claims in "Mormonism Overview" by Watchman Fellowship
• Response to claims in "Basics of Mormonism: Falling Upward" by Watchman Fellowship
• Response to claims in "A Miracle for Mormons - Forgiveness of Sins" by Watchman Fellowship
• Response to claims in "Changing the Book of Commandments" by Watchman Fellowship
• Response to claims in "False Prophecy in the Doctrine and Covenants"
• Response to claims in "Joseph Smith and the Biblical Test of a Prophet" by Watchman Fellowship

Response to claims in "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Profile" by Watchman Fellowship

Jump to details:

• Response to claim: Joseph was told during the First Vision that "all the Christian Church's doctrines 'were an abomination'"
• Response to claim: Mormonism is a "polytheistic religion," because of the belief that God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are three distinct and separate personages
• Response to claim: According to Joseph Smith, God "was once a man like us"
• Response to claim: Brigham Young said that the birth of Jesus Christ "was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action"
• Response to claim: Jesus "is the brother of Lucifer"
• Response to claim: Latter-day Saints make a distinction between the Holy Ghost and the Holy Spirit
• Response to claim: "every worthy male, according to the standards of Mormonism, will become a god and rule over their own planet"
• Response to claim: There is a "Mother God"
• Response to claim: We are all spiritual offspring of our Heavenly Father and Mother, and we once lived in the pre-existence
• Response to claim: "Black people are black because of their misdeeds in the pre-existence"
• Response to claim: salvation or exaltation "is based on one's own good works or merit"
• Response to claim: Latter-day Saint consider the Bible "suspect due to its many errors and missing parts"

Response to claims in "Hinckley Claims LDS Worship Different Christ" by Watchman Fellowship

Jump to details:

• Response to claim: Gordon B. Hinckley's statement to "prove" that Latter-day Saints believe in "another Christ"
• Response to claim: The "Traditional Christian Christ" is "Eternally God." The "Mormon Christ" was "not always God" and "became a God"
• Response to claim: The "Traditional Christian Christ" is "Only God." The "Mormon Christ" is "One of Many Gods"
• Response to claim: The "Traditional Christian Christ" is "Creator of All Things." The "Mormon Christ" "Was Created; Spirit Brother of Lucifer"
• Response to claim: The "Mormon Christ" is "Begotten Sexually, by God the Father"
• Response to claim: The "Traditional Christian Christ" is "Not Married."The "Mormon Christ" is "Married with Children"
• Response to claim: The "Traditional Christian Christ" is "Atoned for Sin by Death on the Cross." The "Mormon Christ" is "Atoned by Sweating Blood in Gethsemane"
• Response to claim: The "Traditional Christian Christ" "Justifies the Ungodly." The "Mormon Christ" "Requires Godliness before Justification"
• Response to claim: The "Traditional Christian Christ" is "Offers Full Salvation Unconditionally." The "Mormon Christ" "Offers Full Salvation Only on Conditions"

Response to claims in "Mormonism Overview" by Watchman Fellowship

Jump to details:

• Response to claim: The Book of Mormon claims that there is only "one God in the Godhead"
• Response to claim: The Book of Mormon states that David and Solomon's polygamy "was an abomination to God"
• Response to claim: The Church was originally founded with the name "Church of Christ"
• Response to claim: The earliest account of the First Vision states that Joseph was "in the 16th year" of his age, and he does not mention seeing the Father
• Response to claim: Joseph Smith gave a "false prophecy" that a temple would be built in Independence, Missouri
• Response to claim: The name of the Church was later changed to "The Church of the Latter Day Saints"
• Response to claim: Joseph gave a "false prophecy" that the Saints would prevail against their enemies in Independence, Missouri
• Response to claim: Joseph Smith's age at the time of the First Vision was "the 15th year of our brother J. Smith Jr.'s age" and then corrects it to be "the 17th"
• Response to claim: Joseph Smith receives revelation to send David Patten on a mission, but Patten is killed during a battle
• Response to claim: The Lectures on Faith describe the Father as a "personage of spirit"
• Response to claim: Orson Pratt is claimed to have been excommunicated for disagreeing with Joseph Smith regarding polygamy and "Smith's sexual advances to Sarah Pratt, Orson's wife"
• Response to claim: The authors claim that "historical records show Joseph Smith was sexually involved with women other than his legal wife Emma" long before the 1843 revelation was written
• Response to claim: Joseph Smith denies polygamy
• Response to claim: The Nauvoo Expositor accused Joseph of "practicing polygamy and teaching polytheism"
• Response to claim: The authors claim that Joseph killed two men at Carthage Jail, and that Joseph cannot be called a martyr because he fought for his life "with an illegally obtained weapon"
• Response to claim: The "Oath of Vengeance" is added to the temple ceremony
• Response to claim: The Book of Abraham is claimed to have become the scriptural basis for denying the priesthood to Blacks
• Response to claim: Brigham Young teaches the "Adam-God doctrine"
• Response to claim: Jedediah M. Grant quotes "with approval pagan philosopher Celsus" that Jesus was persecuted because he "had so many wives"
• Response to claim: Orson Hyde preaches that Jesus Christ was married and had children
• Response to claim: The authors claim that Brigham Young said that the Lord did not come during the First Vision
• Response to claim: Brigham taught that "if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise you that you will be damned..."
• Response to claim: Brigham Young taught "Blood Atonement"
• Response to claim: The Mountain Meadows Massacre
• Response to claim: Brigham Young states, "And when all the rest of the children have received their blessing in the Holy
• Priesthood, then that curse shall be removed from the seed of Cain..."
• Response to claim: Brigham states, "The only men who become Gods, even the sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy"
• Response to claim: Brigham states that "the God that I serve is progressing eternally..."
• Response to claim: Brigham states that he believes that the Sun is inhabited
• Response to claim: Orson Pratt states that the Independence Temple will be built within the current generation
• Response to claim: John Taylor is claimed to have provided "New First Vision information," when he stated, "None of them was right, just as it was when the Prophet Joseph asked the angel which of the sects was right that he might join it"
• Response to claim: Church leaders continued to practice polygamy after the Manifesto
• Response to claim: The Lectures on Faith are removed from the Doctrine and Covenants
• Response to claim: B.H. Roberts "finds several serious problems" with the archaeological and scientific content of the Book of Mormon
• Response to claim: The "Oath of Vengeance" is removed from the temple ceremony
• Response to claim: An article in The Improvement Era states: "When our leaders speak, the thinking has been done"
• Response to claim: Joseph Fielding Smith, who the authors note "would become the tenth prophet," expresses his opinion on the "Curse of Cain" as it was applied to Blacks
• Response to claim: Mark E. Petersen states that "our performance in the pre-existence" affected what race we were born into
• Response to claim: Joseph Fielding Smith "admits Mormon doctrine that Jesus was married"
• Response to claim: Book of Abraham "manuscripts" are discovered
• Response to claim: Book of Abraham "papyrus manuscripts" are turned over the the Church, after which "noted Egyptologists translate them and declare that the text is from the Book of Breathings"
• Response to claim: The Mark Hofmann forgeries
• Response to claim: The Book of Mormon has over "4000" changes since its first publication, and the phrase "white and delightsome" is changed to "pure and delightsome"
• Response to claim: The authors state that "drastic changes" were made in "secret Mormon temple rituals"

Response to claims in "Basics of Mormonism: Falling Upward" by Watchman Fellowship

Jump to details:

• Response to claim: The authors ask, if "death is the wages of sin," and the fall of Adam and Eve "was not actually sin, then why did it introduce death into the world?"
• Response to claim: How did the transgression of Adam and Eve "introduce sin into the world?" How were mortality and a sinful world the result of a transgression rather than a sin?
• Response to claim: The authors claim that if the transgression of Adam and Eve were "such a blessing," then they would have not felt "guilty and afraid" when God approached them in the Garden of Eden after they committed their transgression?
• Response to claim: If the transgression of Adam and Eve resulted in physical and spiritual death, then why are we only subject to spiritual death for eternity if we do not repent?
• Response to claim: Why were Adam and Eve "not counted transgressors before eating the forbidden fruit, for failing to multiply?" The authors ask why this did not cause the Fall to happen

Response to claims in "A Miracle for Mormons - Forgiveness of Sins" by Watchman Fellowship

Jump to details:

• Response to claim: Mormons counterfeit Christianity by teaching that the atonement of Christ is never enough by itself to save any person from his sin and win for him eternal life
• Response to claim: Mormons teach in D&C 14:7 and elsewhere that to receive eternal life one must not sin in any way or at least permanently stop sinning
• Response to claim: Mormons teach the impossible standard of “never failing to do anything He has commanded to be done” to be able to qualify for Gods’ grace
• Response to claim: Mormons teach that “A Mormon, having received the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost, has no excuse for any sin
• Response to claim: Mormons believe that in and of themselves, without the help of God, they “…have the means and power….to actually do whatever God commands

Response to claims in "Changing the Book of Commandments" by Watchman Fellowship

Jump to details:

• Response to claim: Because the 1835 edition of the Doctrine and Covenants didn’t contain the identical revelations as its 1833 predecessor plus revelations which were theoretically given to Joseph Smith prior to 1833, the Church purposefully deceived its members

Response to claims in "False Prophecy in the Doctrine and Covenants"

Jump to details:

• Response to claim: The true test of a prophet is that all his prophecies come to pass (Deut. 18:20-22), and “…the Bible never recommends prayer as a way of discerning true and false prophets”
• Response to claim: Joseph Smith predicted in 1835 that, "The coming of the Lord, which was nigh - even fifty-six years should wind up the scene"
• Response to claim: Two unfulfilled “close-dated unconditional prophecies” preserved in Doctrine and Covenants Section 84:3-5 (construction of a temple in MO) and Section 114 (David Patten serving a mission to all the world) prove that Joseph Smith was a false prophet

Response to claims in "Joseph Smith and the Biblical Test of a Prophet" by Watchman Fellowship

Jump to details:

• Response to claim: Latter-day Saints claim that the truthfulness of "the LDS Church" and Joseph Smith can be tested using the promise in Moroni 10:4. This test is claimed to be too "subjective" to be valid
• Response to claim: The true test of a prophet is that all his prophecies come to pass (Deut. 18:20-22), and “…the Bible never recommends prayer as a way of discerning true and false prophets”
• Response to claim: Joseph Smith predicted in 1835 that, "The coming of the Lord, which was nigh - even fifty-six years should wind up the scene"
• Response to claim: The author claims that Doctrine and Covenants 37:1, which instructs Joseph to stop translating until he goes to Ohio, is a "self-fulfilling prophecy"
• Response to claim: Two unfulfilled “close-dated unconditional prophecies” preserved in Doctrine and Covenants Section 84:3-5 (construction of a temple in MO) and Section 114 (David Patten serving a mission to all the world) prove that Joseph Smith was a false prophet

Response to claims in "The Bible: 1,002 - Book of Mormon: Zero" by Watchman Fellowship

Jump to details:

• Response to claim: “While there continues to be mounting evidence for the historicity of the biblical record, the Book of Mormon is still seeking that first authenticated scrap of evidence"
• Response to claim: Ambiguous statements and grandiose claims have appeared in numerous LDS and RLDS journals, but, to date, not a single claim has been substantiated

Response to claims in "Testing the Book of Mormon by Moroni 10:4" by Watchman Fellowship

Jump to details:

• Response to claim: Moroni 10:4 directs one to ascertain truth and gain knowledge by a method and a standard nowhere recommended in the Bible
• Response to claim: Moroni 10:4 is not so much of a promise as it is a manipulative device
• Response to claim: There being no Biblical warrant for proceeding as Moroni 10:4 directs, one cannot do so without invalidating the sincerity upon which the answer depends
• Response to claim: Because the Book of Mormon cannot be proven by any test of its own devising (it must be tested by the Bible), Moroni 10:4 itself, weighed in the balance and found wanting, is sufficient evidence to prove the Book of Mormon false